tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31265055.post4883368496742899816..comments2023-09-20T14:18:32.900+02:00Comments on Obscene Desserts: Police and thievesJCWoodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02585322642151280666noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31265055.post-76940358048400860982011-08-09T09:34:42.978+02:002011-08-09T09:34:42.978+02:00Many political causes are at root thuggish
Indeed...<i>Many political causes are at root thuggish</i><br /><br />Indeed they are. And those are the ones I tend to despise and wish to combat. In whichever country and whatever class they emerge.JCWoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02585322642151280666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31265055.post-20861783962405291442011-08-09T02:12:14.615+02:002011-08-09T02:12:14.615+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.between-the-lineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523250378946750149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31265055.post-42215040017558503922011-08-09T02:11:24.217+02:002011-08-09T02:11:24.217+02:00Politics is very much an extension or a refinement...Politics is very much an extension or a refinement of violence, imo. If you're into Zizek (which I'm not generally, but this makes sense to me) he talks of all the hidden violence in our system. <br /><br />In past civilisations The Mob was an active factor in politics, and one which had to be appeased, for example by the famous "bread and circuses".<br /><br />We live in an increasingly tense and dangerous time and it's bound to find outlets.between-the-lineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523250378946750149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31265055.post-12807527976897360192011-08-08T23:52:47.670+02:002011-08-08T23:52:47.670+02:00John - politics is rarely selfless and noble. Many...John - politics is rarely selfless and noble. Many political causes are at root thuggish.Francis Sedgemorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310279298255158895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31265055.post-15388790840530999722011-08-08T23:21:10.473+02:002011-08-08T23:21:10.473+02:00Thanks Chris, were I to twitter I could have follo...Thanks Chris, were I to twitter I could have followed the debate there, so thanks for bringing the results of your query to the less technologically adept of us.<br /><br />B-T-L: As the son of one of those overpaid and, perhaps (though it was always denied in our family), oversexed yanks and one of those fair daughters of Albion he lured across the ocean, that issue of Americanisation really interests me. <br /><br />As my article I link to above (and the one by Andy Davies) highlights, the 'Americanisation' issue was alive and well already after the First World War. <br /><br />I have to say, Francis, that as this goes on, I'm struggling a bit to find the political point of it all. <br /><br />The word thuggery's been thrown around a bit tonight by the police...but I'd say I have to agree.JCWoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02585322642151280666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31265055.post-6034870040754133112011-08-08T22:48:48.103+02:002011-08-08T22:48:48.103+02:00Your theory is interesting, Francis, but not entir...Your theory is interesting, Francis, but not entirely convincing.<br /><br />On the other hand, what Chris says does not surprise me.<br /><br />Americanism has been glamorous at least since WW2 when Yankee soldiers of all colours were "overpaid, oversexed and over here" delighting in the absence of segregationism and colour bar compared to the US and busy seducing local youth with nylons and other luxuries.<br /><br />Where I live in a remote and conservative rural area, thousands of Yanks were stationed and the perceived shame of unfaithfulness and "miscegenation" is still a visible but taboo subject over 60 years later.<br /><br />US culture is bewitching and we're inundated with it here in the UK. So much so that people here even believe that they are entitled to a phone call on arrest, which of course they aren't. In America you are, but here we aren't.<br /><br />Add to this the fact that talking like an African-American from the ghetto and revelling in nostalgie de la boue has been fashionable for years, and that many Caribbeans move around between US, UK and the islands anyway, and it seems most likely to me that "Feds" is quite simply just a trendy term to use to be hip and in with the in-crowd. <br /><br />There's even a Wikipedia entry containing pejorative reference to the phenomenon:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiggerbetween-the-lineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523250378946750149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31265055.post-63872367847562042312011-08-08T17:33:42.774+02:002011-08-08T17:33:42.774+02:00I asked the same question on Twitter, and (in addi...I asked the same question on Twitter, and (in addition to references to US TV shows, etc.) got a response from @alanbenzie who wrote, "we used 'Feds' more than 20 years ago, in Scotland, it's not a new thing". which interested & surprised me.Chris Brookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10519945225106590571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31265055.post-81459926224503237442011-08-08T15:03:37.495+02:002011-08-08T15:03:37.495+02:00Interesting points all.
Though, I must admit, the...Interesting points all.<br /><br />Though, I must admit, the middle-class tendency I more often encounter is one of romanticising arson and looting as 'resistance'. <br /><br />And the further back in history, the easier this becomes.<br /><br />We may, however, move in somewhat different circles, so my perception may be a bit skewed.JCWoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02585322642151280666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31265055.post-6359265365298767162011-08-08T14:53:25.350+02:002011-08-08T14:53:25.350+02:00One mistake often made by middle-class British obs...One mistake often made by middle-class British observers of inner city turmoil is to underestimate the degree of politicisation among those doing the rioting. It's all mindless thugs and thieves, is the common wisdom. On the contrary, the recent London riots are in part political, and we are talking here about politics at its most visceral.<br /><br />It is widely known throughout the socio-economic spectrum how the Home Secretary micro-manages policing in Britain. My personal experience of the kind of people who take part in and instigate inner-city riots is one of sharp working class intellects combined with an absence of fear and willingness to have a go, come what may.<br /><br />Of course there exists an American filter of the kind you describe, and the popularity of television dramas such as The Wire plays a significant role in the evolution of street language on this side of the pond. But the dominant culture and politics are British. Also, as an historian you must be aware that that rioting is central to the Great British Tradition of political reform. Without street violence we would still be living in an age of peasants and gentry.<br /><br />That violence makes the world go round is an awful truth, but it is one from which we cannot hide.Francis Sedgemorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310279298255158895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31265055.post-73651281042886003592011-08-08T14:32:04.587+02:002011-08-08T14:32:04.587+02:00Hi Francis.
Yeah, that centralisation story is a ...Hi Francis.<br /><br />Yeah, that centralisation story is a long and interesting one. My colleague Chris Williams has written an interesting <a href="http://www.historyandpolicy.org/papers/policy-paper-16.html" rel="nofollow">summary of that tale</a>. <br /><br />I'm still wondering, though, about the actual route via which this colloquialism has made it into youth/urban slang. Is it so much a perceived reaction to the centralisation of power (I wonder what vanishingly small percentage of the UK population is aware of Home Office policing policy), or is there an element here of young (or youngish) people in some contexts (and to some extent) viewing their experiences at least in part through an American vernacular. <br /><br />There is an interesting history of the latter, as my friend Andy Davies <a href="http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/berg/cash/2007/00000004/00000004/art00007" rel="nofollow">has explored </a> in the context of inter-war Glasgow.JCWoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02585322642151280666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31265055.post-27919706281642573372011-08-08T14:15:18.430+02:002011-08-08T14:15:18.430+02:00This recently adopted usage is designed to express...This recently adopted usage is designed to express the impression that certain aspects of British policing have become controlled by the central state. And to some degree this is true, with the Metropolitan Police, which is there to serve London, having become the UK's de facto FBI. Note that the Met chief is appointed by the Home Secretary, albeit in cooperation with the Mayor of London.<br /><br />The reform of British policing since the time of the Mad Witch of Grantham has on the one hand sharply reduced the amount of racism within the UK's regional police forces, and on the other centralised policing as a whole under the direction of central government.Francis Sedgemorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310279298255158895noreply@blogger.com